Now
Vet0: 260/90
Vet2: 284/99
+10%/+10%
Proposed (edit4)
Panther
Pop: 18 to 18 no change
Vet0: 220/95
Vet1: +0.1 moving accruacy
Vet2: 286/124 +30%/30% (just like Stug and P4)
Comet
Pop: 18 to 18 no change after sbp19 buff
Fuel: 185 to 180
This keep with the theme of teching tiering and timing. The 3Ts.
Puts Panther progressively back into Wehr tech tree. Stug -> Panzer -> Panther -> Tiger
Gives Comet some life, Brit can choose between Comet, to counter Panther faster or Churchill, to dig in.
Panther is latest nondoc unit and costly, if im right.
The proposed change keeps in line with wehr faction favour of armor skirts.
By making rear 95/124 is more inline for the 3Ts, progressively discourage med tanks max range shots.
First the stuarts/aec/76 to later 85/ap shermans/Cromwells/Churchill
The additional moving accuracy supplement it's late game role against vetted TD and high armour/hp and scotts. Panther does not have AP abilities and slowslow rof. Its role of expensive mobile Td is highly suspect the later the game drags.
Panther armor rebalance.
12 Jun 2019, 04:55 AM
#1
Posts: 1794
12 Jun 2019, 04:58 AM
#2
Posts: 1794
As and aside, i looked at stug armor skirts as brought up in the other thread. I think it is fine and should remains. It has progression purpose against the 76/aec.
Likewise p4 armor skirts also kept with its unit theme and have progression purposes
Likewise p4 armor skirts also kept with its unit theme and have progression purposes
12 Jun 2019, 06:23 AM
#3
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
You really do have that rear armor fetish, don't you?
There is not a single reasonable scenario where it achieves anything reliably.
There is not a single reasonable scenario where it achieves anything reliably.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Jun 2019, 07:13 AM
#4
Posts: 1794
I think it will make panther trade better with lower tier tanks. Definitely more useful than 284 frontal veterancy.
Just like when allies td hits the field, they should 1up even a vet p4.
Just like when allies td hits the field, they should 1up even a vet p4.
12 Jun 2019, 07:35 AM
#5
Posts: 1289
But the panther already 1 ups every non doc medium tank.
The only way that non doc mediums beat it if the axis player is outflanked. it hits a mine/is snared. Or allies get enough tanks to swarm it.
The only way that non doc mediums beat it if the axis player is outflanked. it hits a mine/is snared. Or allies get enough tanks to swarm it.
12 Jun 2019, 08:19 AM
#6
Posts: 1794
Yes panther is late costly tank. You wont face 1 med tank by time it hits. This progressively put distance between them and yet not OP to discourage flanking in. Churchill and Kv1 will trade better too.
The current armor vet is mostly pointless.
The current armor vet is mostly pointless.
12 Jun 2019, 08:26 AM
#7
Posts: 366
Of all things that could be said, you want to buff it's rear armour on a already fast tank...
12 Jun 2019, 08:31 AM
#8
Posts: 810
No
12 Jun 2019, 08:32 AM
#9
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Although I agree that 99 armor is too low for a vet Panther your suggestion is not viable.
As far as I know you can not have different buff for front and rear armor.
On can simply have the Panther with higher rear armor to begin with.
You mean like the Comet that starts with 110 rear armor?
As far as I know you can not have different buff for front and rear armor.
On can simply have the Panther with higher rear armor to begin with.
Of all things that could be said, you want to buff it's rear armour on a already fast tank...
You mean like the Comet that starts with 110 rear armor?
12 Jun 2019, 08:57 AM
#10
Posts: 1794
That sucks the core dont support split buff.
We can do 240/110 to 264/121 perhaps.
Still does the job against max shot
We can do 240/110 to 264/121 perhaps.
Still does the job against max shot
12 Jun 2019, 08:59 AM
#11
Posts: 1794
Of all things that could be said, you want to buff it's rear armour on a already fast tank...
I dont see why speed and armor cant coexist, especially if you considering the 3Ts and Td available.
This armor rebalance is just to filter the lower tier at a certain range.
12 Jun 2019, 09:10 AM
#12
Posts: 1351
Hi - what about a bit more potent anty infatry capabitlity of its cannon
or mg instead? After all it was a great all around tank rather than TD. It's so expensive that it should do more to inf than just crush it.
or mg instead? After all it was a great all around tank rather than TD. It's so expensive that it should do more to inf than just crush it.
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12 Jun 2019, 09:12 AM
#13
Posts: 1289
The panther is not only fast, it has high hp, heavy crush, pretty decent armour wich benefits from vet bonusses, high pen to deal with heavy armour quite nicely.
It can stay out of harms way quite easely. It can chase realy easely by crushing almost anything.
Its only real downside its rear armour and its cost. It still bounces shots frontaly quite reguraly, just not from td,s designed to fight it.
And 0.5 moving acc is not a weakness. It was not designed to be the fastest mobile tankhunter with suberb accuracy while also being the tankiest one of the bunch with decent ai power.
It can stay out of harms way quite easely. It can chase realy easely by crushing almost anything.
Its only real downside its rear armour and its cost. It still bounces shots frontaly quite reguraly, just not from td,s designed to fight it.
And 0.5 moving acc is not a weakness. It was not designed to be the fastest mobile tankhunter with suberb accuracy while also being the tankiest one of the bunch with decent ai power.
12 Jun 2019, 09:15 AM
#14
Posts: 246
I'd say no, because it prohibits flanking as an essential game mechanics.
If you want buffs for panther, then you gonna need more arguments.
If you want buffs for panther, then you gonna need more arguments.
UA
soviets
12 Jun 2019, 09:47 AM
#15
Posts: 1794
You can still flank but just a little harder for med tank to take max range at 110/121.
By keeping the frontal armor lower at 240/264, it actually gives higher probability for allies med tanks to pen/deflect damages than now, and more than panther vs IS2 i believe!
Please no more AI buff. Lets keep the theme of mobile td. I think heavy crush was nerfed so it aint that bad. Previously we had super crusher jackson which is so cheesy.
And 0.55 is not superb moving acc, just 10% better than FF and su85, which both got damage pen vets
By keeping the frontal armor lower at 240/264, it actually gives higher probability for allies med tanks to pen/deflect damages than now, and more than panther vs IS2 i believe!
Please no more AI buff. Lets keep the theme of mobile td. I think heavy crush was nerfed so it aint that bad. Previously we had super crusher jackson which is so cheesy.
And 0.55 is not superb moving acc, just 10% better than FF and su85, which both got damage pen vets
12 Jun 2019, 10:06 AM
#16
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
You can still flank but just a little harder for med tank to take max range at 110/121.
By keeping the frontal armor lower at 240/264, it actually gives higher probability for allies med tanks to pen/deflect damages than now, and more than panther vs IS2 i believe!
Please no more AI buff. Lets keep the theme of mobile td. I think heavy crush was nerfed so it aint that bad. Previously we had super crusher jackson which is so cheesy.
And 0.55 is not superb moving acc, just 10% better than FF and su85, which both got damage pen vets
Heavy crush and crush humans are to different values with different affects. One allow to crush bushes and other stuff the other to crush entities.
12 Jun 2019, 10:12 AM
#17
Posts: 3260
Moving the Panther's armour from the front to the back is a nerf.
Panthers are fast and have range. They've got the means to face their front armour towards the enemy.
Panthers are fast and have range. They've got the means to face their front armour towards the enemy.
12 Jun 2019, 10:29 AM
#18
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Moving the Panther's armour from the front to the back is a nerf.
Panthers are fast and have range. They've got the means to face their front armour towards the enemy.
Not really, the current rear make them really bad at flanking because they expose the side allowing rear armor hits.
And the front armor values of the Panther make little difference vs M36/SU-85.
12 Jun 2019, 11:10 AM
#19
Posts: 1794
This proposal actually make comet more useful without changing brit
12 Jun 2019, 11:17 AM
#20
Posts: 1392
This proposal actually make comet more useful without changing brit
But chruchills pens has to be nerfed a little bit.
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